02-19-2010, 04:53 AM
First off Luni, I really appreciate this thread. You make some lovely points about mapping. :D
I agree with this. When mapping, you want to be proficient. I have seen a whole bunch of really stunning maps from a few people. However, they fail in technique and playability. Filling you map with a bunch of crap does not make it a good map whatsoever. Its tacky and lazy. On the surface, it looks like a great map, but delve a little deeper and you discover the truth.
I love this point, I never really thought about that before.
I love the points you make out. :D
Im just stating my own opinions as a fellow mapper as well. :D
Quote:Unless the player is in an actual maze, there is no reason the player would need to follow a maze-like pattern to get from point A to point B.
I agree with this. When mapping, you want to be proficient. I have seen a whole bunch of really stunning maps from a few people. However, they fail in technique and playability. Filling you map with a bunch of crap does not make it a good map whatsoever. Its tacky and lazy. On the surface, it looks like a great map, but delve a little deeper and you discover the truth.
Quote: Make a clear and visible path. As a developer, you are trying to guide player from one area of interest to another. Make it obvious where you want the player to go and outline the path. Things like roads, footsteps, patches of carpet or any simple area that's free of clutter and detail will do the trick. Yes, you should most definitely make the path obvious to the player, not because you consider them to be dumb, but because you don't need to make the player waste time on something trivial. You'd like the players to explore? That's great! Give them a secret area or a special chest if they venture into the thicket of your forest. But still give them the clear road/path that they need to follow.:D
Quote:Create small areas of interest and use them as landmarks. Consistency is great and detailed maps look very appealing. There are two problems with making all maps heavy on detail: 1- Player gets used to the amount of detail and it becomes increasingly more difficult to pull of the really special areas And 2- Larger maps become a veritable maze where the player spends unnecessary time trying to find their way around; this in turn creates a fake length that annoys more players than it impresses.What even better is if you make a landmark that has some significance to the story as well. o:
I love this point, I never really thought about that before.
Quote:- If you absolutely can't live without small and detailed maps, use them in cutscenes only. This way, you can show off your stunning visuals without annoying the player. At the same time, you also make the cutscenes more special. Your cutscenes will read more like a movie and that's pretty special.The only problem I see with this is consistency issues. I think there is a point where there is too much stuff and it really distracts thee player from the cut scene as well. I think simplicity is what is needed for cutscenes. Don't get me wrong though, you can still create a well crafted simplistic map. Look at Chrono Trigger for example.
Quote:- Use screen tint, sun beams and fogs very sparingly. Yes, I agree that they're fantastic in creating atmosphere. But they lose their appeal when they're used too often. For example, imagine the great big evil tower of doom where the player goes at the end of the game. The fog rolls in, the dramatic music plays, the player is filled with anticipation and dread. Now imagine the same scenario, only this is what the player has seen on every map. Fog rolls in, dramatic music plays and the player is looking for the fast-forward button so he/she can get into the tower. Not exactly the kind of reaction you're hoping for, right? So, how do you create the right atmosphere? Number one is the right musical choice. A bustling city with a cheerful and quick theme will seem more busy. An empty city with a creepy theme will seem sinister. And so on. Also, use sound effects and background noise. Chirping birds in the forest, croaking frogs in the marsh, crickets in the night, etc. They make a big difference.I agree with this to an extent. What I think is lacking is more innovative uses of fog and screentone. Many just use it as simplistic fog or lighting effects. Where are so many ways to use fog. In an ice cave, you can add a frosted look to the screen by using a fog, in forests, you can accent certain areas in trees to give them a more mystic look, in cliffs you can make a windy fog that whips across the screen. Many people seem to overlook these things. I guess its more of me being more original with fogs in my opinion.
Quote:- Don't make your screen dark. It doesn't matter if it's a really dark area where you can't see much or that you're making a horror game. If the player has to squint and sit 2 inches away from the screen to see what's going on, you're doing it wrong. If you want to create the idea of night or create a darker area, you don't need pitch blackness. You only need to darken the area by a few degrees. In terms of horror games, get creative! Replace darkness with a grayscale - make the dangerous area lit, but in black and white. Or make the map out of focus in the areas outside the player's cone of vision. Or give the player a clear image of the map when they enter the area and make it grow darker as they get closer to danger. There are a lot of creative ways to achieve the atmosphere without making the screen a sea of black.I love this point you make. Many people use really dark screentones to add some spooky effect. Its not spooky if you can't see anything. If you want a flashlight in the dark part, make one, just make sure its just one part of the game. I think its far more creepy to be able to see whats going on. You make some really good points and ideas here. :D
Quote:- Even if your game is a fantasy and we are expected to suspend belief for large parts of it, use common sense and logic when mapping. Houses are built in squares or rectangles. The inside of houses and rooms should be square and rectangle. People who live in houses will try to maximize space - so they will have 4 large rooms with almost no corridors instead of 12 tiny rooms and a million hallways. Flowers don't grow in caves - even if they look pretty. If you are going to go against these conventions, then have a good explanation! Maybe the guy in the house with a million hallways has OCD and needs to categorize his rooms. Or maybe the people in the other house with a million hallways slowly expanded their house room by room - sneakily, in the middle of the night. There could be life crystals in the cave that are making those flowers grow, or there are holes in the cave roof - in which case you'd map to indicate light and possibly include a beam or two. Saying "it's a fantasy game" isn't a good reason to throw all convention and common sense out the window. Sure, go ahead and make creative and unique choices to create better visuals, but also give them some thought and back them up with an explanation. "Because it looks pretty" just doesn't cut it.I would be somewhat careful with this. In my opinion, houses should not be perfectly rectangular. They should have a turn or two. If you look at houses especially some newer models, there is a turn here and there. Also, remember that fungi can grow in caves without sunlight. Also, plants can grow without sunlight, however, they are small and die after a short period of time due to the lack of sunlight.
Quote:- Remember that there are constraints to using a tile-based map maker. There's a lot of advice out there to keep in mind the randomness of nature and to not allow for symmetry. In theory, it's sound advice. But it applies to free-style drawing better than it applies to mapping. To really get that kind of random effect, you'd either need to paint backgrounds from scratch or make a tileset of such a gigantic size that no two tiles would be the same. So, no matter how you look at it, if you use tiled maps, there will be an artificial quality to it. Don't beat yourself up if there's a slight symmetry. Obvious mirror symmetry or the same tile repeated over and over don't work in natural setting, but you don't have to waste an hour making sure that little bush is never in the same column/row as another one. And, really, if the only critique people can give you about your map is that you have two bushes in the same column, your map is fine.To me, it depends on the object. If its a bright, noticeable object, you should go out of you way to make sure its not in the same row. However if something small and not noticeable, then don't beak a leg over it. I love this point you make though about rule of symmetry. Just one more thing, this changes depending on what type of graphics you use. This applies to the Rtp, as its big, bulky, and colorful.
I love the points you make out. :D
Im just stating my own opinions as a fellow mapper as well. :D