Sodomite Suppression Act

[Kain Nobel]

DISCLAIMER : I am not homophobic, so please do not shoot the messenger. Also, I was going to post this in "What's On Your Mind?" thread but figured it'd be better in its own thread as this is kind of a hot button topic. Feel free to discuss this and share it with your friends but please keep the conversation on this website civil. Discussion of this particular subject on this website, outside of this topic, is forbidden so please do not let it leak into the shout-box or over to other threads as it could lead to a suspension to your account. Also, administration reserves the right to close this topic whenever they deem it necessary.

About the Sodomite Suppression Act

I recently came across this little piece of news; An evangelical lawyer from Sacramento, CA, named Matt Gregory McLaughlin, filed a piece of anti-LGBT legislature which calls for the shooting of homosexuals in the head, dubbed the Sodomite Suppression Act. At first, I was questioning if this was a hoax but, with all the coverage, it seems to be legit.

Certainly it hasn't been passed into law, but it is said he must collect 365,000 ballot signatures to make it into the books. Of course, it's highly unlikely to pass because a.) obviously, cold blooded murder is a crime b.) a federal judge in CA deemed the death penalty unconstitutional c.) everybody in the USA has a right to due process and d.) separation of church and state is supposed to be law of the land. There is also the Supreme Court case of Lawrence VS Texas which, according to snopes.com, supposedly makes LGBT activity legal in all US states and territories, but one would have to do further research on the subject. As of this writing, it is said there are 4,000 signatures on the ballot.

There is currently a change.org petition to have Matthew Gregory McLaughlin disbarred from practicing law in California, as of this writing 48,927 people have signed, only 1,073 more signatures is needed to reach the 50,000 goal. I do wonder if there is a way to convict this guy on the basis of hate speech, this is one of the most offensive pieces of proposed legislature I've heard in awhile. Of course, that itself is a grey area, considering the KKK's practice of burning crosses is protected by law too, such a shame.

Author's Opinions

This makes me question the law of the land as well as biblical texts. Where in the bible does God condemn homosexuality? Certainly He states to "be fruitful and multiply," but in these times it seems we would be better off if people limited themselves from child bearing for awhile. One fact is the LGBT community cannot procreate, another fact is many of them are trying to adopt children whom have been orphaned by their parents for whatever reason. The whole situation is bigoted and anti-progressive, there are way more important issues than being offended by "love" of any kind.

...That's what it comes down to really, people being offended by love and attraction, countering it with violence and hate.

I just recently got back from vacation in California and the issues I saw was the fact that, aside from the Napa Valley grape vines, much of the farm land has been razed and is now barren, with much of the water is being redirected to LA. It is quite sad to see dried out farming communities affected so much, but persecuting the LGBT community does not change the fact that every race, gender and sexuality use water and need it to survive. I highly doubt this is "God's wrath" over "gay marriage" but, of course, if that's what people want to believe...

@_@

I apologize about this long rant, but I really do wish people would focus on the real issues and quit using their religion as justification for hate and bigotry. Aside from that, isn't it time for somebody to start writing the New New Testament? The current one we have seems to be for an age when war and disease was rampant, where birthrates were low and mortality rates were high. At approximately 7 billion people on this planet, the whole "be fruitful and multiply" line seems outdated and rather dangerous to mankind and Earth itself, doesn't it?

Conclusion

Free will is abundant but common sense is fast becoming scarce, we each need to walk the path of enlightenment for the betterment of human civilization. Good day to you all and thanks to whoever took the time to read this post.

[Bounty Hunter Lani]

The bible says in multiple places that God doesn't like homosexuality, where did you get your information that it says otherwise?

Honestly, if someone is trying to make it legal to shoot gays in the streets, then I'm sure even Christians wouldn't like the idea. Christians don't hate gays like the media and demagogues love to say on the internet. They hate the sin of homosexuality, and the fact they want to marry, which is a holy institution made by God for his Children. That is why Christians are so against gay marriage. It has nothing to do with HATE.
Also, there have been studies that show that about 5% of all gay couples who get married or want to get married stay with one partner. It was an anonymous study of homosexuals and bisexuals, so they wouldn't get shunned in their communities, and I can't seem to find the source right now, but from all of the attempts at threesome marriages in gay marriage states, it actually doesn't surprise me very much.

Oh yeah, and a similar study also said that when a child grows up with two fathers or two mothers, the child will "Fall in love" with someone of the same gender at a young age, because they're constantly told by their parents it's okay-- "Indoctination", if you will.
If you're raised one way, you believe it's okay, until you're told otherwise by someone else, and since most homosexuals will avoid letting their kids go to church to hear the other side, the gay community grows because of the adoptions. That was the justification that some gave for why same-sex couples (Or triplets) shouldn't be allowed to adopt kids.

And honestly, I don't think the problems in California come from God's Wrath, though God did say he wouldn't do a widespread destruction like Sodom and Gomorra or the Great Flood anymore, so a drought COULD be his way of giving a warning, if anything. Also, the "Be fruitful and multiply" is used out of context by many as an excuse for sin, especially by Mormons with multiple wives, which is generally seen as sin by most in the Christian community.

And no, no "New new testament", because it would be written by ideologues like you who want to change what God says, just because they don't like what the other texts say. This has already been done by two guys who didn't like what it said, so they "Re-translated" the bible. (They actually just took a magic marker on the KJV and took out what they didn't like, and changed others to mean what they wanted, such as God not liking divorce, etc.) This "Re-Translation" has been used by many new versions of the bible, like the NIV, ESV, etc.
Many churches use these versions, but people who want the "real" translation go to the KJV, despite the efforts in recent days to attempt to discredit the KJV with lies and slander.

Not sure what you mean by "Betterment of society", and the "Path of enlightenment", since usually when people say that, they mean "STOP BEING A CHRISTIAN AND FOLLOWING THE BIBLE, BECAUSE IT'S NOT YOUR WORLD ANYMORE!" and I hope you don't mean that Christians should change what the bible says because you want them to think like you...

Anyway, to finish this off, I gotta say, the one who proposed the killing of homosexuals on the streets sounds like a psychopath using the bible out of context, like many do. Do you know how many times the "Judge not, lest ye be judge" thing is misused and misquoted? People ACTUALLY think you're not supposed to know how a person is, and you're not supposed to hang out with certain people. Quite the opposite, actually!

Oh! And separation of church and state was made to keep the government out of the church, not the church out of the government. That also has been perverted to mean the founders didn't want religion anywhere but church, but they really wanted the government to stay out of the church, if you read the letter it was proposed in
(Obama, and some others in his administration, as well as Nancy Pelosi have said to preach on the pulpit to support democrats, which should be illegal under the separations, but they always get away with anything, apparently.)

In Conclusion:

The guy who proposed the law to kill homosexuals is a psychopath, and many bible verses are misquoted or taken out of context to mean what a person wants it to mean, and not what it ACTUALLY means. Reading the verses around one verse could find the true meaning of it. Homosexuals have a hard time, but Christians have had it just as bad all throughout history. Jesus was crucified because he was Jesus (And because God needed it to happen. The "Pure Lamb" and such.), his followers were killed, stoned, and persecuted because they were his followers, not because they did anything to deserve it, and Christians have been persecuted all over the world, even to this day. They are demagogued as bigots, haters, etc. because they don't believe the institution of marriage as set up by God does not allow the marriage of two homosexual men or women, or because they don't believe that they should adopt children, since most think that they'll be indoctrinated to hate God.
There are Christians being FORCED to do services for homosexuals, because the government calls them bigots for not wanting to participate in something they do not wish to participate in. (The cake makers, some churches, etc. are all being forced to do that)

People all over the world say they wish they could go back to the days of old, where Christians were fed to lions, and others (Even a former best friend of mine) say that all religions should be culled from the planet, which is just returning the psychopathy that they claim Christianity has.

The law shouldn't pass, however I don't think the guy could get charged with hate speech, either. Freedom of speech extends to some bad people, unfortunately... but that's why America is grand. You can speak out against ANYTHING, without being arrested for it. (Though some take it too far, and overstep boundaries people set for protesting, etc.)
You get literally shot in other places for speaking out, or slain and imprisoned for religious beliefs.
I love this country, and you can take that to the bank!
...THE BLOOD BANK
(What? I watched Hard to Kill last night )

Also, I think this topic gets right back onto what they other moderators didn't want, which is an argument over religion that may offend people. Is it really okay to post this?

[KasperKalamity]

it's my butt, and i'll stick a bible up it if i want. this is america, not iran.

[Bounty Hunter Lani]

Not Iran, but some speech is still offensive...

[KasperKalamity]

offensive speech is exactly what the first amendment exists to protect, since offensive is culturally subjective, and culture changes with time.

[Bounty Hunter Lani]

I'm still wondering why this thread is even up, since it's not only anti-religious from the topic creator's comments, which starts arguments, but the fact that the subject has been a problem in recent days on this site, the decision to make this thread seems... I dunno, crass?

Maybe I'm just too sensitive, but this topic was supposed to have been avoided, not perpetuated in another thread

[KasperKalamity]

I'm just too sensitive

[MetalRenard]

The topic of this thread is not condemning religion, simply the non-acceptance of a basic human right (i.e. the freedom to love whomever you fall in love with, no matter who they are, and this includes homosexuality), an idea propogated by one particular person who is an obvious homophobe and very outspoken about it. It's not a topic about religion per se, it's about one person in particular who uses religion as an excuse.

I'd be upset about someone using my belief system as a scapegoat for their own personal vendetta too.

Kasper, no flaming please.

[Bounty Hunter Lani]

Thanks for the clarification, Renny-kun!
But I don't know where the "Be fruitful and multiply" and the

Aside from that, isn't it time for somebody to start writing the New New Testament? The current one we have seems to be for an age when war and disease was rampant, where birthrates were low and mortality rates were high.

Criticisms came from, as it seems to be a religious criticism more than criticizing the guy himself for being coo coo in the head.

Anyway, I'm gonna avoid these topics, since people will always be after me, and I really don't like being a target. Being religious is a major burden these days because of that fact

Carry on, guys

[JayRay]

Okay, I'm going to get in on this one before it DOES get thrown out...

Jesus Christ came to this world to save all mankind, and that includes LGBTs. Now, this statement might seem a bit much when you see these people running around and waving signs, and bible verses that seem to contradict what I'm saying now. Understand that there are traditionalists in all religions, all works, but even through this, a true Christ-like person, one who keeps Christ within him should embrace all as he would any other.

"Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone" comes to mind in a day when too many traditional groups snub their noses up at homosexuals, those with alternative lifestyles, even people who have tattoos and piercings as 'ungodly'. The way I see it, if I see someone head to toe with tattoos and piercings sitting in the back of my church, I'll invite him to sit right next to me, share my bible if he didn't bring one, because this man, no matter what his lifestyle, took time out of his schedule to come and have a relationship with God. I've seen people of all walks of life come together for the ministry to the world, and if God can use a criminal, a persecutor, a collection agent, a drunk, a harlot, and even a donkey to spread his word, then he can use anyone, and if anyone can be a vessel for the Lord, then anyone should be accepted by the Lord's Chosen.

Martin Niemöller once stated an interesting quote...
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Martin then spent seven eyars in a Nazi concentration camp, and afterwards in 1946, penned these words.

""Thus, whenever I chance to meet a Jew known to me before, then, as a
Christian, I cannot but tell him: 'Dear Friend, I stand in front of you,
but we can not get together, for there is guilt between us. I have
sinned and my people has sinned against thy people and against
thyself.'"

Sure, martin was talking about his own anti-semitism, but if we correlate this today, once could write.

"I did not speak up when they persecuted homosexuals, because I'm not a homosexual"

"I did not speak up when they persecuted Muslims, because I'm not a Muslim"

"I did not speak up when they persecuted drug-users, because I'm not a drug user"

"I did not speak up when they persecuted other races, because I'm none of those."

"I did not speak up when they persecuted the murderers, because I have not killed..."

"And when my time for judgement arrived, there was no one left to witness for me."

We as a church should not stand by while people in our own circles persecute people, whether they believe them or their sin to be 'an abomination' or not. It's not our place. There is one judge for this world, and if any of our so-called interpreters would simply bow their will to His, the Church itself would not get so much negative criticism from the masses, as trying to invoke the law like they themselves were the hand of God, instead of the personification of Jesus' mercy and grace in this world.

I for one, am a King of the Most High, a child of God, and I feel that my relationship with God is no greater than some LGBT 'sinner' who comes to God for salvation. "For all have sinned, and fallen short of the Glory of God"; that's straight, gay, bi-sexual, atheist, theist, polytheist, old, young, wise, foolish, EVERYONE.

Paul was once a great persecutor of the early Church, but God found a way to get him to 'see' things more clearly, and I can only sit back in wonder as to how he'll change this man's life in a way that brings Glory to His name, and sanctifies his mercy and grace to all people.

In conclusion, I do hope everyone is having a great day, and I'll talk to some of you later on IRC.