Inteligent debate: Christianity
10-23-2010, 11:20 PM
The "thou shall have no other gods" isn't really a contradiction. A simple metaphor would be similar to the McArthy Era in the United States History. There, McCarthyism rode with a huge "THOU SHALL NOT" type of hatred towards all things that weren't their form of democracy. It was effectively a "thou shall have no other politics" in effect. You were completely able to be a communist or socialist, or anything else you wanted to be, so long as when caught you were willing to deal with the consequences. Not a fair metaphor, I know.
The original sin thing rubs a LOT of people the wrong way. One thing I forgot to mention is it DOES NOT exist in the Hebrew scriptures. Like Limbo and Satan's role it was added on and later expanded on in Christianity, and depending on how you feel about when the various scriptures in the New Testament were written, and their possible original wordings, might not even exist. In fact, if you ignore just one interpretation of three quotes from Peter, the whole thing vanishes. Seriously.
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" is from Romans 5:12, found in the New Testament. Unfortunately it does not actually state original sin's motive or practical existence. It merely states that Adam sinned, and that that sin was passed on. It doesn't state why, nor does it state a purpose. The simple truth is, outside of a few letters written by Peter Original Sin does not exist at all in the Old or New Testament.
The ironic thing is if you DO believe in Original sin, and you DO believe in what was written about the three days in which Jesus died, then you do NOT have Original Sin anymore, since it was effectively lifted (again, an interpretation) by his opening of heaven. You see, in Christianity Jesus was Crucified and spent 3 days in the abyss, in which he took all the souls (hell, he took Moses) and brought them to heaven. He opened the gates, and absolved all standing sins. In that interpretation and tradition, Original Sin DID exist, but exists no longer.
The reason it could have existed is the very same thought as "my forefathers hated yours so I hate you" idea. Don't forget the Old Testament DOES say to punish those who break the biblical laws, and their families. Up to "seven generations" which is simply a nice way of saying "until they are dead" heh. Seven, along with forty, are numbers that generally mean "shit load of time" and go on past literal means.
The funny thing is, and I should mention this, is that there is actually no mention of you or me, who do NOT believe in God, going to hell in the bible - Old or New Testament. Official scriptures of both the Jewish and Christian faiths actually have no mention in it. Granted it does state wrongs for not believing, and punishments that fit into THIS life (or this world - however you view it), but nothing speaks of an eternal damnation or sin. People often confuse the 10 Commandments as sins, but a sin is actually more metaphysical. Greed is a sin, not keeping the Sabbath holy is a crime. Not all crimes are sins. Having another diety isn't a sin, it's just not what you SHOULD be doing. In the end, and this is found in various scripture, you aren't judged by your beliefs. You're judged by your sins. You CAN be a very good person, and be an Atheist, and go to Heaven (if this is as written as is).
This is of course an interpretation. Some schools of thought prefer other methods. And as my earlier post regarding holy wars states, there's room for hatred on all fronts. And so hatred begets hate, and political control begets followship, and you're either with us or against us. And one of best ways, even in non-religious methods, such as with just normal politics, is guilt. The governor race here, for example, has some candidates telling you how YOU did wrong by the city. You voted for the wrong party (believed in the wrong diety), and you have to make right (sin), and you were raised by the wrong people (original sin), so vote for us (absolve) and we'll have a great city (heaven).
The original sin thing rubs a LOT of people the wrong way. One thing I forgot to mention is it DOES NOT exist in the Hebrew scriptures. Like Limbo and Satan's role it was added on and later expanded on in Christianity, and depending on how you feel about when the various scriptures in the New Testament were written, and their possible original wordings, might not even exist. In fact, if you ignore just one interpretation of three quotes from Peter, the whole thing vanishes. Seriously.
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" is from Romans 5:12, found in the New Testament. Unfortunately it does not actually state original sin's motive or practical existence. It merely states that Adam sinned, and that that sin was passed on. It doesn't state why, nor does it state a purpose. The simple truth is, outside of a few letters written by Peter Original Sin does not exist at all in the Old or New Testament.
The ironic thing is if you DO believe in Original sin, and you DO believe in what was written about the three days in which Jesus died, then you do NOT have Original Sin anymore, since it was effectively lifted (again, an interpretation) by his opening of heaven. You see, in Christianity Jesus was Crucified and spent 3 days in the abyss, in which he took all the souls (hell, he took Moses) and brought them to heaven. He opened the gates, and absolved all standing sins. In that interpretation and tradition, Original Sin DID exist, but exists no longer.
The reason it could have existed is the very same thought as "my forefathers hated yours so I hate you" idea. Don't forget the Old Testament DOES say to punish those who break the biblical laws, and their families. Up to "seven generations" which is simply a nice way of saying "until they are dead" heh. Seven, along with forty, are numbers that generally mean "shit load of time" and go on past literal means.
The funny thing is, and I should mention this, is that there is actually no mention of you or me, who do NOT believe in God, going to hell in the bible - Old or New Testament. Official scriptures of both the Jewish and Christian faiths actually have no mention in it. Granted it does state wrongs for not believing, and punishments that fit into THIS life (or this world - however you view it), but nothing speaks of an eternal damnation or sin. People often confuse the 10 Commandments as sins, but a sin is actually more metaphysical. Greed is a sin, not keeping the Sabbath holy is a crime. Not all crimes are sins. Having another diety isn't a sin, it's just not what you SHOULD be doing. In the end, and this is found in various scripture, you aren't judged by your beliefs. You're judged by your sins. You CAN be a very good person, and be an Atheist, and go to Heaven (if this is as written as is).
This is of course an interpretation. Some schools of thought prefer other methods. And as my earlier post regarding holy wars states, there's room for hatred on all fronts. And so hatred begets hate, and political control begets followship, and you're either with us or against us. And one of best ways, even in non-religious methods, such as with just normal politics, is guilt. The governor race here, for example, has some candidates telling you how YOU did wrong by the city. You voted for the wrong party (believed in the wrong diety), and you have to make right (sin), and you were raised by the wrong people (original sin), so vote for us (absolve) and we'll have a great city (heaven).
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