Introducing RM2k/3 users to RMXP or RMVX?

[Archeia]

I'll answer these as best I can. The main problem I have with using RM2k and RM2k3 is that there aren't any legal English versions, but I don't care if other people use them. I won't think badly of anyone using the illegal translations, but I wouldn't feel comfortable making a game with them.

1. It sounds like laziness to me, which is a bad way to justify not switching.

It's not laziness, it just means that you are doing more work than it you should over a free game (hobby) think of it, you spent YEARS literally doing something and people play it for like a few hours and not even finish it etc. It's totally not worth it.

2. Again, laziness, but with a little of the, "What I know is best," attitude. You can sometimes find that something new is much better if you take the time to learn it. It just bothers me when people dismiss something because they don't understand it.

When you spent years on something people can't move on to learn "something new" over the course of time since admit it, you want to finish your game and you know this engine better. Instead on moving on a foreign engine that literally takes you months to learn you want to stick on something you know that will be worth it (check AEDEMPHIA)

4. I'm really interested in knowing your reasoning behind this. We can't discuss it if you're not willing to explain.

Not willing to explain. Too tired and complicated.

5. I don't know how much difference there is between RM2k/RM2k3 and RMXP/RMVX, so I can't comment on this.

XP has 40 fps and runs slower on other computers. Specially on outdated ones and the scripts are messed up that it requires fixing.

6. Again, I don't know what features are different, but I have to agree that Enterbrain's "simplifying" is starting to get annoying.

Facesets, Tile Replacement, Scrolling Panorama, Battlers changed into pathetic actors and removed the facesets, etc.

7. Why? I don't know how to script, so I can't compare how the different systems work, but do you dislike it because of its difficulty, its lack of something, or another reason?

Not everyone pass introductory math. This is how people define it. (I'm learning RGSS though but this is one reason why some can't learn them >_>)

8. It depends on your style. If you like RM2k/RM2k3 graphics, then I can see sticking with the programs, but if you like the graphics because you don't want to switch for another reason, then I'd have to say that you're missing out.

Try converting Lufia graphics to XP and think if they're not awful to look at. A 16x16 tileset, made for 16x16 not 32x32 so you have to edit a lot of stuff :V Now think about animating all the charsets and much more.

Like I said, I don't care what program you use, but I really want to understand people's reasoning behind not liking the newer versions. Some of your explanations seem like excuses, which is why I'm pressing you to further explain your thoughts.

Disliking RMXP for its RGSS is horrible reasoning. First of all, you don't have to use it at all. You can make a good game without one custom script. Second, scripts simplify the process of RPG making. If you want to go for a complicated, 50 common evented ABS, go for it, but note that you can do the same copy-pasting a few scripts. Yes, you'll have to do some minor modifying and editing, but it's still much simpler than using all those events.

It's not excuses but how people think. First of All XP is crappy even the default scripts needs major overhaul, it's tiring to explain stuff so I'll just copy pasta this from another forum we discussed about VX vs. XP =_= This is from a scripter

That's why we are rewriting the entire RMXP scripts (even the hidden classes) to a completely different engine with a much better render and update. Yes, XP does have a lag flaw as soon as many scripts are implemented, and I don't like that fact. It needs a lot of tweaking.

It's a simple system, but Enterbrain did a lousy job coding RMXP to begin with. I mean, just take a look at the Game_System object. It hosts instances of the interpreter, but one for both map and battle. Why the hell did they do that? What were they thinking? It's a complete waste and causes the render and update process of the system to be very faulty and badly written to begin with. It doesn't really help to have people writing scripts based on such a shitty base. Which is why the SDK was written, which is now being taken to the next level with Vertigo, which is still in the planning stages.

The SDK causes incompatibilities for a lot of things, indeed, and so will any rewrite, to be honest. If it doesn't make it incompatible, the rewrite must be a pile of shit. Thus, Vertigo will be much different, and most, no wait, all scripts, will become incompatible with it due to it's new data and render structure. Going to be a great system, however.

Blah Blah Blah

For those who are taking their games seriously specially with 100000% custom moving on will be hard. I just can't understand why can't they just improve rm2k3 , just add RGSS etc. and it'll be perfect!

If you think it's not being original using someone else's script, of course you can learn Ruby and script for yourself. There are infinite possibilities with what you can accomplish via scripting-- check out hima's USG for an example. Do you think you can make THAT through eventing?

Yes you can, you can do real time, valkyrie profile, guitar hero-esque system, etc.! ZOMG! Eventing is so awesome since you can apply programming knowledge in it!!

And thinking about changing to XP and as some people say, It's all kinds of annoying, unsure because of script issues, Suddenly, you can't do nearly everything yourself anymore and you have to rely on other people and do trades!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and much much more! Isn't it so fun?

So if it means to change engines, we rather learn PSP engine, DS Engine, Game Maker or Multimedia Fusion which is 100% better than RPGMaker or work with AGM if it's good.

[Guardian]

It's not laziness, it just means that you are doing more work than it you should over a free game (hobby) think of it, you spent YEARS literally doing something and people play it for like a few hours and not even finish it etc. It's totally not worth it.

That makes sense. I want to get into the video game industry, so it's a little more than just a hobby for me. Thinking that way for a while means I sometimes forget that is is just a hobby for some people.

When you spent years on something people can't move on to learn "something new" over the course of time since admit it, you want to finish your game and you know this engine better. Instead on moving on a foreign engine that literally takes you months to learn you want to stick on something you know that will be worth it (check AEDEMPHIA)

I guess that makes sense. I still think it's a good idea to move on to the newer version of a program, but I'll accept that some people are happier with the older versions.

Not willing to explain. Too tired and complicated.

M'kay. I don't think you should have brought it up if you didn't feel like explaining it, but I won't press you for further information.

XP has 40 fps and runs slower on other computers. Specially on outdated ones and the scripts are messed up that it requires fixing.

I think VX is a little faster. I may be wrong, though.

Not everyone pass introductory math. This is how people define it. (I'm learning RGSS though but this is one reason why some can't learn them >_>)

I'm very good at math, so I didn't see this as a possible problem. But, don't you need to know math for the database editing, as well? You need to set stats, stat growth, stat values for weapons, items, etc.


Although I still don't agree with you, I'm definitely starting to see your point of view.

[Regimos]

Yes you can, you can do real time, valkyrie profile, guitar hero-esque system, etc.! ZOMG! Eventing is so awesome since you can apply programming knowledge in it!!

The whole point of RGSS is to add on to the basic eventing functions already programmed in. It simplifies the process of eventing for you-- yes, you can probably accomplish anything with eventing, but are you willing to spend the time when there is an easier solution? And going with my previous argument, the script editor is completely optional to use. Whether you see it as useful or useless is up to you, but you can't say it's a bad feature overall.

And thinking about changing to XP and as some people say, It's all kinds of annoying, unsure because of script issues, Suddenly, you can't do nearly everything yourself anymore and you have to rely on other people and do trades!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and much much more! Isn't it so fun?

I don't see how it's any more annoying than eventing in previous Makers. Sure, a couple of features are gone, but they can be easily added back (either through scripts or events). You don't even need to worry about script issues if you don't add any scripts.

I'm not trying to convert you to XP or VX immediately. If you're well into a game made in 2k/3 or just find the program much more likeable, feel free to continue. I'm just showing my points on the advantages of RGSS.

[Archeia]

The whole point of RGSS is to add on to the basic eventing functions already programmed in. It simplifies the process of eventing for you-- yes, you can probably accomplish anything with eventing, but are you willing to spend the time when there is an easier solution? And going with my previous argument, the script editor is completely optional to use. Whether you see it as useful or useless is up to you, but you can't say it's a bad feature overall.



I don't see how it's any more annoying than eventing in previous Makers. Sure, a couple of features are gone, but they can be easily added back (either through scripts or events). You don't even need to worry about script issues if you don't add any scripts.

I'm not trying to convert you to XP or VX immediately. If you're well into a game made in 2k/3 or just find the program much more likeable, feel free to continue. I'm just showing my points on the advantages of RGSS.

You keep saying it's "optional" when it isn't. Did you just ignore the RGSS default issues that I said earlier, and one of the down points IS THAT THEY REMOVED THE SIMPLE FEATURES AND YOU HAVE TO SCRIPT THEM! That's the thing that's turning off people! If you want to make a decent game in these engines you have to rely on scripting and restore some of the great default events that they removed!!!! And it's not easier when you don't know anything about scripting! You have to go to other communities to see this, and didn't you notice why the recruitment boards are filled with NEED SCRIPTER! I AM A SPRITER AND I WANT A SCRIPTER SINCE I SUCK AT THIS!

Which is the whole point, you can't do anything by yourself anymore unlike in rm2k3 you can be free and do whatever and do a little editing here and there.

I never stated RGSS is a bad feature but ONE OF THE FEATURES THAT TURN OFF PEOPLE!
A lot of people are more comfortable with eventing than some btw.

Oh and this issue that once again I will paste here since it seems to be ignored

That's why we are rewriting the entire RMXP scripts (even the hidden classes) to a completely different engine with a much better render and update. Yes, XP does have a lag flaw as soon as many scripts are implemented, and I don't like that fact. It needs a lot of tweaking.

It's a simple system, but Enterbrain did a lousy job coding RMXP to begin with. I mean, just take a look at the Game_System object. It hosts instances of the interpreter, but one for both map and battle. Why the hell did they do that? What were they thinking? It's a complete waste and causes the render and update process of the system to be very faulty and badly written to begin with. It doesn't really help to have people writing scripts based on such a shitty base. Which is why the SDK was written, which is now being taken to the next level with Vertigo, which is still in the planning stages.

The SDK causes incompatibilities for a lot of things, indeed, and so will any rewrite, to be honest. If it doesn't make it incompatible, the rewrite must be a pile of shit. Thus, Vertigo will be much different, and most, no wait, all scripts, will become incompatible with it due to it's new data and render structure. Going to be a great system, however.

If you want people to play your game you have to be presentable and that takes a lot of time... >_>

XP is 40 fps and VX has 60 fps

M'kay. I don't think you should have brought it up if you didn't feel like explaining it, but I won't press you for further information.

That is because I'm bringing up reasons why some people don't like moving on, isn't that the point of the whole topic?

I'm very good at math, so I didn't see this as a possible problem. But, don't you need to know math for the database editing, as well? You need to set stats, stat growth, stat values for weapons, items, etc.

There's a simple algorithm for this as explained in the help file and there's an excel file named ALXGEL (AXGEL whatever I can't remember) that shows you how much damage you inflict with this and that etc. Which makes thing so much eeeaaasssiiieerrrr. And rm2k3 isn't that complicated O_o

I'm not trying to convert you to XP or VX immediately. If you're well into a game made in 2k/3 or just find the program much more likeable, feel free to continue. I'm just showing my points on the advantages of RGSS.

Oh just something, I'm using Rm2k3 and RMVX and used to use XP (but got turned off by the script issues) so it's no use trying to persuade someone to use something that is already using that thing :V *points down to sig* What my friend told me that if it involves scripting learn something much better and he's doing that now and making a game for the PSP

I'm just speaking up for the people that I talked to and why they don't want and why they shouldn't be forced to just move and how hard it is to move.

[Guardian]

That is because I'm bringing up reasons why some people don't like moving on, isn't that the point of the whole topic?

Well, we can't really discuss it if we don't know what the reasoning behind something is. It's like entering into a political argument, screaming, "Candidate A sucks!" and walking out the door. It just seems pointless to bring something up if you're not trying to convince us of its validity.


And yeah, Enterbrain has some issues with rushing their products, which is why they aren't always as good as they should be. In VX, they messed up the variable operation. That should have been a major, flashing, blinding red flag. In my copy of RPG Maker 2 (PS2), the characters couldn't gain experience because of some weird scripting error. I theorize that the attitude is caused by the "quantity is better than quality" fact of making money. They could release one really good program for $120 or two horrible ones for $60, and they'll make more money between the two horrible ones than they would with the single $120 one. I just hope they don't mess up Action Game Maker.

[Archeia]

Well I could elaborate the reasons but it's just a chore, I might have to answer more questions that it's tiring :wacko:

AGM is a collaboration between enterbrain and another company if I remember correctly. And Enterbrain isn't the one doing RPGMAKER 100% but some japanese company. But yeah it is pretty annoying they are rushing their products

[XP Kobold]

Well since we are continuing this topic. I've been wondering since the 2k-2k3 users are still using the maker I was wondering if anyone fould any use of the stuff i actually converted and put together in their projects. If many people find out that their favorite graphics are converted to XP and the possibilites. Many people may want to use RPG Maker XP more.