Pretty Maps; Bad Design.

[MechanicalPen]

This thread is just an excuse for me to rant about map design, so feel free to ignore it...

I was flipping through the Maps and screenshots thread and there were a lot of pretty maps. There were significantly less maps I'd feel good about playing through. Too much clutter, and scenery that is hard to read. RPG Maker XP games in general seem to attract this problem; minimap scripts and player locator scripts were built to fix this! Overloading a player with visual information with exhaust them, and who wants to play a game that makes them tired.

The worst offense to spacial navigation in RPG Maker XP is Fog. In case you didn't know, RPG Maker XP has a option that lets designers overlay a transparent pattern over the screen, called a Fog Graphic. There are some interesting ones, like water or clouds, but the ones I always see used is either fog or sandstorm.

Fog is useful for setting a mood, but like real fog, it obscures the player's vision. This isn't good! This means the player has to spend extra effort to pick out the tiles from the texture on the screen to figure out where they can walk.

Speaking of walking, having only a few different kinds of walkable tiles per area is a good idea. As is making obstacles more contrasty than passables. This way the obstacles will stand out to the player's eyes and help them notice the difference between the two. Sadly, the default RTP for RPGmXP doesn't follow this rule much at all.

Too many non-walkable tiles is another problem I see often. Every tree or pot or bush is something the player was to figure out how to walk around. This leads to the player feeling cramped, which is probably what you want in a city or forest but certainly not in an open field.

[penguwin]

I understand where your coming from, some people use it and it obstructs the vision of the player way too much!
The default fog that comes with RMXP are not very well designed, and most people have a hard time using them effectively.

[cosmickitty]

RM maps have quickly turned into... "look how many special effects I can add" :) Instead of focusing on whats right for each game and area

[Taylor]

Maybe this is one thing VX and Ace have in advantage: their limitations mean people need to think more carefully about their maps. I like the pretty/detailed maps some created with the likes of RM2k and 2k3 - which also were more limited than later makers, but XP usually adds in much too much...

Like... anything Meiscool seems to be doing:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/M...ffab14.png
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/M...Inside.png
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/M...9e32c2.png
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/M...creen2.png

These strike me as detailed, yet they're not so that they distract from playability.

... I think. Maybe I don't know what I'm on about.

[MechanicalPen]

Those are good examples of well designed maps. The floor tiles have too much contrast for my liking, but that might just be me and my brain problems. I could hardly play Skyrim for the same reason.

[Taylor]

I think contrast is the thing that might do it with some maps. There needs to be a way to make interactable and walkable areas stand out and clear, while also making the environment look nice and whole. Singular. Part of the same thing. If you have too much contrast in some tiles, it makes it hard to concentrate on where you can go.

[Steel Beast 6Beets]

I agree with what you stated yet I think those could easily be employed as a dungeon gimmick.

The fog, for example, could be intentionaly used to hamper the exploration by offering a limited vision of the place and the gimmick could be igniting torches to light up the area for a limited time.

Non-walkable tiles can be used to make a man-made labyrinth. Let's say the dungeon is an abandoned warehouse and the played is forced to navigate a maze made entire of discarted goods and assorted junk.

Of course, problem is still when those desings are used solely to provide atmophere and nothing more.

[JayRay]

In my opinion though. rooms and maps can be detailed, without having to be obstructingly so. Binding a player to have to negotiate gradma's cabin in the woods with all the pathfinding of a Pac-Man on the sixth act is ludicrous.

"Grandma! you hoarder! why are there a ton of boxes sitting in your living room, there's no room to walk!"

Sometimes people get stuck with having to put EVERYTHING they own in a map, just so there are more eye-catching things to go with.. and completely forget the central focus of the game, the player. Why hide them behind a million trees, bushes, clay pots and more?

If you're going to put obstacles, maybe develop a filmmaker's idea in giving the player obstructions but keeping things that hide the player's face to a very bare minimum.

[JayRay]

But now I'm a bit curious... what would be your take on a map like this? this isn't the finished project of course, but...



and more over on the Map and Screenshot thread I just posted...

[KasperKalamity]

also include dumbass npc’s that corner you and wont move out of the way either because their movement is based on yours, or their random movements don’t, by the luck of the irish, get out of the corner too