Tiled - Good or bad?

[JayRay]

I've heard the pros and cons about Tiled, a map creation engine that seems to be rubbing a few artists the wrong way, and is praised like crazy by other artists. So let's look at Tiled as it stands.


Tiled allows the creation of multiple layers for parallax maps, as well as the ability to save tilesets that are outside the normal range of 32 pixels by 32 pixels.

Tiled allows image, object, and tile layers, and can screenshot entire maps with a mouse click or just one layer.

Tiled is FREE, and can be found at http://mapeditor.org

This is a discussion thread, feedback appreciated.

[hanetzer]

I would call it interesting, but I don't particularly like the format of their map files. When you open it up in a text editor you don't get any real info out of it. I plan on using sqlite binary files, which when opened in a sql viewer will show real, sensable data. But, I must say the interface is pretty nifty, and I hope the ReGaL map editor is as intuitive and easy to use, and hopefully as pretty too :P

[MechanicalPen]

Tiled as an editor is super wonderful! But most people in the RPG Maker communities are using it so WRONG.

By that, I mean people are laying out these beautiful tile maps, and then taking a 'screenshot' of it and loading that in as their map. This means, you are not getting the artistic freedom of hand drawn maps nor the space/memory savings of using a tileset. It is the worst of both worlds!

Now here is something interesting: http://tiledmax.xpod.be/?page=home That code could be studied to make an RPG Maker plugin for TMX files. We'll see.

Edit:

I would call it interesting, but I don't particularly like the format of their map files. When you open it up in a text editor you don't get any real info out of it. I plan on using sqlite binary files, which when opened in a sql viewer will show real, sensable data. But, I must say the interface is pretty nifty, and I hope the ReGaL map editor is as intuitive and easy to use, and hopefully as pretty too :P

Export as Flare map file. you'll get a nice text array for each layer.

[tnsi]

It's a matter of limitations, within RPG Maker at least. People use software such as Tiled, or in some cases, Photoshop/Paint.NET to lay out maps without being completely confined to the limitations of RPG Maker VX/Ace, being limited to one 'real' layer, with tiles acting differently through virtual layers.

The only real improvement that needs to be implemented in order to actually give a point to using TMX in RPG Maker is a rewrite of the hidden Tilemap class to work similar to RMXP or to provide more layering/passability options. RMVX/A is designed for small sized sprites with limited detail, and that is reflected within how the map system works.

[MechanicalPen]

You are correct. It's not the users' fault they have to spend time and hard drive space taking a picture of a map that should, in all accounts, WORK inside their favorite RPG Maker.

[cosmickitty]

I worked on an isometric game and used tiled for an editor... but everything in the game was randomly generated so it was mostly to test how tiles work together. Although for that purpose it was great. If I remember correctly the tilesets autoupdated when I edited them.

Seems like it would be a tad counter productive for RM though. You're still working with a grid so I'm not seeing a lot of benefit. I like working on graphics gale, you can lock to the grid and use it like the editor for parts, but you can also unlock and add details that can break it up.

[JayRay]

There is a script that is perfect for just this sort of layering limitation... By creating your layers of TiledMap and taking more than one screenshot, you're really not changing too much as far as file size, and with this script, you get a lower parallax (whihc you could later animate) a ground layer, a shadow layer, an upper parallax layer, and light or fog layers... Here's the script (don't want to post the full script without permission, but)

http://www.rpgmakervx.net/index.php?showtopic=48231) - HK's Ultimate Overlay Script (FOR VX)
http://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/index.php?...y-mapping/ (FOR VX ACE)

Combine this with Yanfly's Tile Lock Parallax to add even another layer... (Animated water streams or lava pools at more than 32x32?) Possible here.


Oh yes, the grid is something, but tile areas for that grid can be changed... one grid is 32x32, while another ground detailing grid is 64x64, then say I want all my houses to be prerendered and be around 384 x 256, I can set the ofset and overlay them perfectly...

Also, all the tiles have a built in Zbuffer, so if you're doing a forest scene for instance, and have a tree whose trunk might be within that 32x32 pixel but is like 256 pixels tall (8 tiles), you can still place it on the map layer, and notmatter if you place it first or last, it automatically organizes it according to the horizontal z buffer (I love that)

[MechanicalPen]

By creating your layers of TiledMap and taking more than one screenshot, you're really not changing too much as far as file size.

I disagree. a 3d array of tile data is, at maximum 1.2kb for a whole map. A picture of the same map is going to be around 200kb. An x100 difference is... a lot.

[JayRay]

oh no, what I meant was... if you're already doing one layer of a parallax... say, a 43x43 map, it's around 1.28 megs for the layer...

Now, when adding the other layers, like ground addons and such, you're not really adding an entire layer on top of it, just bits and pieces over a transparent PNG layer, which may add 30 or 40 K to the whole map, if strategically designed... The fog layers CAN be setup as JPG and have opacity governed in game, and if the JPG is indexed to a lower file count by color, you're looking at .08 Megs... Light as well, can be a 8-16 color JPG, and also would be around 0.08Megs

1.28 Megs vs 1.5 Megs, not that big of a difference.

Now, granted, devoting 300 megs to graphics would definitely load down the system, but not each map, as its loaded, due to each map still only at the maximum loading and scrolling that 2 meg map. If file size scares you however, there IS a solution....

I found a few scripts that allow you to declare a picture underneath the map at a certain position, and that these pictures would scroll with the maps. This way you can "tile your maps, not bound by the 32x32 pixel environment of RMXP, but by say a 256x256 environment, placing each picture where you need it to go, much like pre-cut rooms from tapletop gaming tilebooks. Then you would also create the tile, cutout the areas that people would appear behind, and lay that layer over the top of the map for a parallaxing map...

file sizes don't bother me quite as much, but I can see how they would be a factor for game lag in some cases.

[MechanicalPen]

Large pictures do not just contribute to game lag, but also file size. File size is an important deciding factor in deciding whether to bother with a free game on the internet. Can I try it out now? Or do I have to wait 2 minutes? 10 minutes? An hour? There have been some RPG Maker things that I have been interested in, but was not willing to download 100something Megabytes of data to play it. Not worth the time, or the bandwidth.