08-18-2015, 02:05 PM
(08-18-2015, 05:50 AM)RosyPosy Wrote:1 - Everyone pretty much shuts down Wakka after he says the fireworks thing. I said AFTER the Home incident, that's still during it. He remains pretty quiet and reserved for a while after the Home incident, and changes his ways after that.(08-18-2015, 05:00 AM)Bounty Hunter Lani Wrote: First-- prove to me that Wakka stays the racist guy he always was after the Home incident. He clearly changed, especially after finding out about Yuna's lineage.
"Boom like happy festival fireworks"
-wakka trying to "cheer" up rikku after witnissing home being burned down by yevon.
Second-- He didn't know about Yevon's deception at the point where he remarks he can't believe they're fighting a Maester. That was the first battle with Seymour, which was the battle that killed him and made him an Unsent.
- he reitterates this all the way up to the last time you fight saemore And the last time -5th time fighting saemore- hes finally over it.
In fact hes not totally dedicated to the idea until they fight yunaleska.
Third-- The point of the Summoners and the Pilgrimage is to make the Summoner strong enough for the Final Aeon summoning, which destroys Sin and gives a Calm that lasts for a while. After the Calm is over, Sin returns due to Yu Yevon taking over the Final Aeon's body.
The maesters are fully aware that yu yevon is no diety nor an inevitability- theyre all nihilists who think death the only salvation- I simply disagree that this level of stupidity is actually as broad- I still think they get nothing from propogating the religion to fuel sins returns- they know the pilgrimage is worthless.
Fourth-- The ones who give you Aeons are NOT ghosts, they're the Fayth that sacrificed themselves to become the Aeons. Seymour's mother became Anima, and you can get her and even use her.
They are ghosts- however they re-purposed themselves to use their spirit to help defeat sin, They died long ago when sin first attacked Zanarkand.(also zanarkand did not have summoners- which means none of them were sent, and they didnt even have a problem before sin with monsters so I think SIN yu yevon specefically forces the change as sin comes near(because sin often attracts fiends- this may be due to his own magic.rather then a natural conversion- but its left vague for writters convenience.)
Fifth-- I'm not sure the Maesters even support Sin. It's an inevitability that Sin returns, because they believe the Final Summoning is the only way to kill it, which in turn makes Yu Yevon take it over and it repeats again. They run the show, so the power is there.
the maester that auron knows spills the beans that they know during yunas trial/
they allow the pilgrimage for hope only- because it does them no good to correct them- however it doesnt explian why its explicate in their religion when they have no stake at all and are infact more in danger if summoners discover the truth. thats why theyre so quick to discard their own rules to capture yuna- but ultimately it makes no sense for them to allow summoners through. and I must be right about that- two summoners defeated them.
Sixth-- I'm not sure on the rules of the Unsent is either, but most people don't stay Unsent for over a few years before becoming Fiends. The Unsent resent the living, according to some people in the game, which is what makes them turn into Fiends. I'm sure if we had watched over many of them before they got Sent, they may have turned into Fiends eventually.
(I already adressed this up there) zanarkand creates a plot hole for you. theres no summoners in zanarkand, before sin.
Finally, limiting the equipment to classes when you could originally equip anything and get nice and unique setups? I find it annoying. I wanna have a bow with some heavy armor. What's wrong with that?
Well, I can't do that in IZJS. My choice was taken from me.
I still disagree- choice is only worthwhile if those choices have meaningful conclusions. with jobs- you have to think of class chemistry- as well as how you want to play personally- when you have access to everything you get all the licenses- and you equip the objective best armor and weapon on everyone- and you can still use the best magiks. some weapons were just not as good because you had better alternatives- why use a knife or ninja sword? you could use a katana or sword and shield combo for better effect. There was no reason to run a full mage- everyone could get the cure and raise spells. everybody could use Shock objectively the best spell cause its animation time was so low. and you could spam it pretty often.
the jobs give more context to the great weapon they made- the way they made guns and bombs was so neat but rarely used because why use them? you could get more damage output from an axe then a gun. See what I mean? all the combos are still avialable- its just now each class has its own usefulness, and your gambits are more important- as they should be- they also rebalanced the weapons and repriced everything. they changed it specifically because player data showed players didnt choose unique loadouts. they listened to their data and fans to make it more important as a feature. and I think that offers better expirience- I have a red mage-white mage- machinist archer- samurai - and vann as the thief class- and Ive never felt better about my load outs before- Im editing my gambits alot more and changing equipment often to improve their personal preferences in places I want them in. ALSO
the zodiac has a speed hack built right into the game- that way I can fight with the quickness and it doesnt ruin the music. So grinding is made more tolerable. which I appreciate- and hope to helll thats what the remake is like again- just more weapons prettier designes- NO LOADING MAPS! and some new enemies and places to go. hell more jobs would also be nice- maybe a bangaa- or seeq could be in the guest slot when a character like larsa isnt in their. Im just so excited Ihope it comes out soonish!
You failed to prove your point, Rosy.
2 - You just proved my point in Wakka changing by Yunalesca. He realizes pretty shortly afterwards that he has to find another way to defeat Sin-- outside what has been already set via the Pilgrimage. There's a ton that goes on after that, but I dun wanna spoil TOO much for people ._.
3 - Only the higher-ups in Yevon knew of this stuff, and they perpetuated it.
Also, the Final Aeon was the only one strong enough to defeat Sin head-on. Nobody thought of GOING INSIDE SIN and killing Yu Yevon from the inside! And without getting out some of the forbidden machina and flying inside (I know, Yevon uses machina that is forbidden, they're hypocrites), they wouldn't have even been able to put the plan into effect anyway. The whole world would've known of their hypocrisy if they did that! All power over people is gone!
4 - Zanarkand had Summoners. That's where the whole thing started. They had Summoners AND Machina, but they didn't worship Yevon, because it didn't exist at the time. I think Maechan the old man storyteller goes over this story, you should find that. I think it was... at Gagazet?
Anyway, Yu Yevon takes over Aeons. Look at the final battle.
The Fayth aren't ghosts. Many of them gave themselves to become Fayth. That's also said by many-- And guess what. You have to give up your guardian to get the Final Summoning! More proof they're people who were alive, and gave themselves.
5 - Auron does spill the beans-- of what he knew. That was only because he was one who went on a pilgrimage with Braska as a Guardian and died during a battle with Yunalesca. He stayed unsent after that, and even Auron didn't know of another way in destroying Sin. None of the Maesters knew, all they knew was the Final Summoning and sacrificing a Guardian at the end of the Pilgrimage. Yuna and Guardians rebel at the end of the Pilgrimage instead of perpetuating the cycle and sacrificing one of their close friends. This is also the turning point for Wakka, as stated earlier. He knows he has to work together and do whatever he can to defeat Sin outside of the religion he now knows was super-corrupt and perpetuated the cycle via Yunalesca.
6 - There was no need for the Final Summoning. There were Summoners, but none strong enough to defeat Sin. I said it earlier that Maechan goes over this.
Finally--
I ought to take a picture of my setups of my Final Fantasy XII characters end-game. Their setups look far from what you imagine with clone ultimate crud everywhere. I have three Zodiac Spears, but I only ever use 1 or 2 at a time. Ninja sword and stuff have nice combo rates, bows are great for keeping a character safe, etc. I strategize quite a lot when it comes to Gambits and equipment.
The IZJS has a lot of features not in the other version, which actually annoys me greatly. If they make an HD version, they ought to give a choice to toggle between the class system or an all-out system. I don't know a single person that has cloned equipment people in their party except hackers and people who farm Grand Armors for hours like morons. No thanks to that
Give the people choice, don't take it away just because you like the IZJS. A lot of people I know DON'T like the system, and wouldn't get the HD version if it's forced on them. It's a lot more unpopular than people think. Most in the international areas in this world didn't even know of the other version for a long time, but they say IZJS /may/ be better only because of features and bonus stuff that the International gamers got to replace their lack of choice in equipment and spells.
To Renny-kun:
I thought 7 was boring as well. It was my first Final Fantasy, and I barely made it 2 hours in before going to play Legend of Legaia and Dino Crisis.
Final Fantasy 8 was what gave me my love of Final Fantasy, and the rest were just gravy on taters
X-2 and beyond screwed the story big-time. X-3 especially. I seriously hope they don't make X-3 a reality, because that novella destroys all that is canon.
X-2 also had an extra scene that tied it to Final Fantasy VII, and the connection was confirmed by Square.
To Ahzoh:
Final Fantasy is a pretty good series that's usually worth playing, though there are some black sheep that many argue about. It may be worth your time to get your hands on one or two Final Fantasy games and play them. (Or not.)
And yeah, Tidus's fate is heartbreaking. The game gave people emotions and kept people invested from beginning to end. That's why I think so many loved it.
The end made many a man and woman cry.
To JayRay:
Final Fantasy VIII!
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